How much is 1 caster level worth?

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MrWaeseL
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How much is 1 caster level worth?

Post by MrWaeseL »

A lot of optimized caster builds dip into other classes that don't grant caster levels for other effects, like the contemplative for its bonus domain, or the monk for wisdom to AC (assuming Monk's Belt is banned) SO I wonder, how much is a caster level (or two or three) worth? Is giving up two caster levels okay for all your spells to be spell-like abilities, for example?
Sma
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Re: How much is 1 caster level worth?

Post by Sma »

I guess answering this won´t be simple, because if you´re one CL away from casting ninth Level spells you are obviously gaining more than if you´re going from CL 3 to 4 where you only gain another spell per day.
Seems like you get interest in your CL, the more you already have the more you stand to gain.

And as for gaining your spells as spell-like abilities, that depends if you´re going to go nuts with the XP-cost spells, but the loss of 2 CL means you´re not going to gain free wishes for a while, and when you gain them the Gate-mages have been getting them for two levels.

For primary casters losing a CL is almost never worth it, the only exception is when you stand to gain something that can´t be properly simulated with a spell, and those are few and far between.
Wrenfield
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Re: How much is 1 caster level worth?

Post by Wrenfield »

Advancing spellcaster levels can affect multiple different components in spellcasting; range, SR resistance, targets affected, total damage, etc. Maintaining and advancing those levels is critical in order to enjoy the exponential advantages that spells have over say, feats or other class abilities.

So say a Wizard choses to take a level in Fatespinner (for whatever reason) and lose out on 1 spellcaster level. Not only is he dropped down to advancing spells as a Sorceror (yuck), he also now lost out on boosting the majority of his spells in key performance issues (like range or targets affected). He'll also potentially suffer when up against an opposing Wizard who is the same character level as him, but has *full* spellcaster progression and higher level / more potent DC-based spells. In addition, your Dispel Magic and the like will be more problematic.

It's reason like these that I see hybrid casters like Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster, and MyTh builds continue to suck on the battlefield. Hybrids make great cohorts, NPC's, BBEG's, and "5th Man" Party Members, but they make poor primary spellcaster solutions for a party.

Username17
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Re: How much is 1 caster level worth?

Post by Username17 »

Every caster level gives you 2-4 spells you can prepare and cast every day. This translates to, on average, getting 3 separate nifty once per day abilities which can be moved around every day.

It also comes with extra known spells - 2 of them if you happen to be a wizard, and a 50% chance of getting about 40 of them if you happen to be a Druid or Cleric. These in turn increase the versatility of all the spell slots you already have (for example, let's say you just gained access to a new attack spell at 4th level, this allows you to free up slots for utility magic at 3rd level, and vice versa and so on). That's about as much versatility as Combat Expertise or Power Attack - and you get it every level (or way more than that every other level if you are a Cleric or Druid).

And your spells penetrate SR better. And your save dcs may go up. That's about te equivalent of gaining BAB for a Fighter.

And your spells have a 50% chance of becoming more powerful. Higher level spells are just better than lower level spells. It's like you just traded up equipment or got beter stats.

All in all, every single level of Spellcasting is, by itself, as much power as the first level of Barbarian and as much versatility as the first level of Fighter.

So if you aren't looking at +1 BAB, Rage, Fast Movement, and a Bonus Feat - don't even bother dropping a caster level.

-Username17
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