Outsider strangeness in 3.5

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User3
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Outsider strangeness in 3.5

Post by User3 »

When someone becomes an Outsider, they gain the traits of the type(like Darkvision), and sometimes gain the HD traits(when HD are converted into outsider HD). This is inconsistantly applied. For example, some Outsider templates gain none of the HD attributes, others gain only Outsider skills.

So what happens to a character that suddenly becomes an outsider in a non-template way? Does the 20th level monk suddenly gain 8 skills points per level and a BAB of +20.

HD considerations aside, Outsider traits also include proficiency with martial weapons, which is just like the Darkvision(not attached tothe HD), and a better range of things to Polymorph/Alter Self into.

Makes that FR Player's Guide feat that turns you into an Outsider look way better, eh? Even being a Tiefling might be worth it.

Taking monster levels might also be better when the new HD are outsider ones.
User3
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Re: Outsider strangeness in 3.5

Post by User3 »

I think the quickest way to become an Outsider is the 1st or 2nd level of the new revised Divine Disciple in the PGtF (no books - so correct me if my level is off). That means by 8th or 9th level, you get that outsider goodness. Add that to your Monk question inquisitiveness.

Related to the Outsider topic, the PGtF also gives you rules in the back of the book to make a +1 ECL Tiefling into a +0 ECL Tiefling by converting him to Humanoid [Extraplanar] from Outsider. Which is *TOTALLY* worth it. Get a Hat of Disguise (which is never a bad idea anyway) for cheap, make sure you choose a "look" that is anything but outsiderish, and your enemies will never ever cast a Dismissal on you. All the while, you rake in all the +0 ECL goodness of being a Tiefling...
Username17
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Re: Outsider strangeness in 3.5

Post by Username17 »

But the Tiefling bonuses are not especially large contrasted with the benefits of being a Gray Elf or Dwarf. So while using a sufficiently large number of optional rules, you can play such a character - they really aren't impressive even so.

The key words here are "inconsistently applied" - truer words were never spoken.

The most likely thing is that only monstrous hit dice are supposed to fork over the changed hit dice, saves, and skills. And thus, while a Bug Bear Monk will eventually get a windfall - normal characters won't.

Even this is not uniform, and the whole "turning into an Outsider" thing is rather poorly handled from a crunchy bits standpoint.

-Username17
User3
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Re: Outsider strangeness in 3.5

Post by User3 »

Frank Trollman wrote:But the Tiefling bonuses are not especially large contrasted with the benefits of being a Gray Elf or Dwarf. So while using a sufficiently large number of optional rules, you can play such a character - they really aren't impressive even so.
Oh, but they are for certain Wizards. A +2 to DEX and INT and a -2 to CHA is worth it alone (as long as you don't plan on casting Charms or Planar Binding spells). Gray Elf Secret Door auto-detect and Dwarf Stone Trap auto-detect is nice, but not for most Wizards.
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