Why does non-masterwork Platemail exist?

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Username17
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Why does non-masterwork Platemail exist?

Post by Username17 »

Why would mundane craftsmen make Platemail?

Seriously.

A mundane craftsman makes the same amount of money when he makes an expensive thing as he does when he makes a series of inexpensive things.

Why? Because it takes longer to produce an expensive thing than it does to produce an inexpensive item. It in fact takes a linearly extended period. A mundane craftsman produces his craft check squared in silverpieces every week, and has to provide 1/3 of that in materials. So a mundane craftsman with a craft bonus of +11 can take 10 every week and get 441 silverpieces (44 gold) worth of goods, with a materials cost of 147 gsilver pieces - for a total profit of 294 silver pieces each week (about 29 gold). Our mundane craftsman can make anything he wants - horse shoes, barrels, crisper drawers, whatever.

But wait, suits of platemail cost more than 44 gold pieces. And because of that, he doesn't finish in a single week. Further, barrels and crisper drawers cost less than 44 gold pieces, which means that a week's labor produces more of them. So while it takes the mundane craftsman 238 days to produce a single suit of platemail - he can produce 22 barrels in a single week. At the end of 8 months he'll have been paid the same amount, but this way he'll get it in a series of payments over the period, instead of a lump sum at the end. Assuming that the mundane craftsman is experiencing inflation, debts, living expenses, investment opportunities, or savings - he has actually made more "real" money by making the smaller items than he would have by making the platemail over the same period.

OTOH, Wizards casting Fabricate do not have this problem. They have a different problem. They produce things by volume - not by cost. A wizard can make the same number of suits of platemail as he can barrels. And it takes the same time, and the same inputs, whether he makes the platemail masterwork or not. So instead of making one barrel, the Wizard can make a masterwork suit of platemail - better than the one the mundane craftsman was producing.

So let's talk comparative advantage and basic economics. Obviously, it makes no sense for the Wizard to make barrels - the opportunity cost for a barrel is one suit of masterwork plate armor. It equally makes no sense for the mundane craftsman to make a suit of plate armor - the opportunity cost is 750 barrels and it won't even be masterwork at the end.

So the Wizard can trade the suit of masterwork plate armor to the craftsman for 400 barrels, and the Craftsman now has an object which is more valuable to him than the barrels (in that he got a better product in only slightly more than half the time), and the wizard has an object which is in turn more valuable to him (in that he just multiplied his labors by 400 times).

So here's the question:

Since plate armor should only be being made by 9th level wizards, and 9th level wizards don't especially lose anything by making the item masterwork - why would non-masterwork plate armor exist in the world?

It's like "hand printed microchips" - it just doesn't exist. If you have the factories such that you can make microchips at all - you have the factories such that you print those circuits and don't have to attempt to install them by hand. The capital and technology required to meaningfully enter the market at all also grants a certain minimum quality level that exceeds that given as the "standard" in the game world.

So what gives? Why does this crap even exist?

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da_chicken
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Re: Why does non-masterwork Platemail exist?

Post by da_chicken »


"Fabricate is broken! Craft is nonsensical!"

Duh!
Thoth_Amon
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Re: Why does non-masterwork Platemail exist?

Post by Thoth_Amon »

Dwarves just like to make stuff. And dwarves whoa re just learning can't make the good stuff. ANd they make it medium sized so they don;t have to get all the details right, and then since it doesn;t fit them and they wouldn't wear it if it did becasue it is substandard, they sell it to the humans. Where there is a market for it because some relatively new adventurers can;t afford all the sweet sweet fabricated stuff.

(Its just a pet theory really)

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Re: Why does non-masterwork Platemail exist?

Post by Username17 »

Where there is a market for it because some relatively new adventurers can;t afford all the sweet sweet fabricated stuff.


How so?

According to the PHB, a wizard is willing to cast Fabricate for someone for just 450 gp + materials cost. The materials cost for Full Plate is 50 pounds of iron - which is five gold. So a wizard should be selling masterwork Fullplate for about 455 gp.

Meanwhile, a mundane craftsman requires much more inputs - and over the 8 months they spend working on it they expend 500 gold in various resources.

So according to the PHB, the market price of buying masterwork platemail directly from wizards is less than the materials cost for a mundane craftsman to make it in the first place.

So how could a mundane craftsman ever undersell the wizard?

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Desdan_Mervolam
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Re: Why does non-masterwork Platemail exist?

Post by Desdan_Mervolam »

I think that mundane Full Plate shouldn't exist anyway. Historically, your high-end heavy armors were custom built to fit the buyer specifically.

-Desdan
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Thoth_Amon
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Re: Why does non-masterwork Platemail exist?

Post by Thoth_Amon »

Can't you see you are putting Amatuer dwarven armorsmiths out of business Frank?

Don't you even care about them?

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Mole_2
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Re: Why does non-masterwork Platemail exist?

Post by Mole_2 »

Err... because a trained armoursmith can make armour but doesn't know jack about making barrels ?
Craftsmen often have pride in their work.
I know people IRL who place pride above financial gain.

A wizard could only make masterwork plate if he made his craft armoursmith check.
Admittedly, even untrained, with his int bonus a wizard would not need very many castings to get it right, but what wizard would want to waste his godly potential on a haphazard money-making scheme ?
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Josh_Kablack
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Re: Why does non-masterwork Platemail exist?

Post by Josh_Kablack »

I'm with da chicken on this one.

But I'd also like to add "The given standard in the settings does not match the potential of the mechanics!!"
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
Tae_Kwon_Dan
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Re: Why does non-masterwork Platemail exist?

Post by Tae_Kwon_Dan »

Hell it's also dumb just from a percentages standpoint, if you can afford to shell out 1,500 gp then I don't think 1,650 gp is exactly going to break the bank. It's an overall 10% increase in cost. Therefore it shouldn't exist, because economically it doesn't make sense not to pay the little extra for the better version of the really expensive armor.

With the other armors the cost consideration still exists, because MW is a significant increase in the price of the item, but not with FP. So I'm going to agree, it really makes no sense.

Boulie_98
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Re: Why does non-masterwork Platemail exist?

Post by Boulie_98 »

FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1075941958[/unixtime]]So the Wizard can trade the suit of masterwork plate armor to the craftsman for 400 barrels, and the Craftsman now has an object which is more valuable to him than the barrels (in that he got a better product in only slightly more than half the time), and the wizard has an object which is in turn more valuable to him (in that he just multiplied his labors by 400 times).


Ricardo would be proud. :wink:

So what gives? Why does this crap even exist?


When playing DND, assume you know less of economics than any mercantile economist of ye olde pre-smithionan days. Inflation? Never heard of it. Captured treasure hoards disrupting the local (or even national if it's big enough) economy? No way, more gold simply means you're richer and that's that.

TDK wrote:Therefore it shouldn't exist, because economically it doesn't make sense not to pay the little extra for the better version of the really expensive armor.


Having more options is always superior to having less. Besides, is an ACP reduction of one *really* worth 150 gp if you're no adventurer and have to look out for your gold pieces?
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Re: Why does non-masterwork Platemail exist?

Post by User3 »

Non-masterwork Plate exists for two reasons:

1. Doesn't require a 14th level mage(.01 % of the population).

2. The above mentioned 14th level mage doesn't have to waste even a single skill point on Craft if anyone else can make plate.

Personally, I'd just summon a Djinn to create spices or silks, or Plane Shift to the Elemental Plane of Swag rather than waste any skill points on a Craft skill.

However, the existence of the Fab Mage does explain why metal weapons and armor are so common in a supposely Mideval setting.
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