Skip claims to not hate sorcerors...

[fbmf]

...right here.

Along with some other interesting tidbits.

(Thanks to Mole 2 for pointing this out on Nifty.)

Game On,
fbmf

[Tae_Kwon_Dan]

This further proves to me that a majority of pro-game designers take their, and their player's, self policing as given. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but just like computers need to be somewhat idiot proof, so should game rules.

[Username17]

So his claim is that he loves them so much that he is afraid to write anything good for them, ever, on the grounds of showing his favoritism?

I don't see how the end result is any different than if he hated them.

-Username17

[Count Arioch the 28th]

Kind of like how my players ganged up on my for picking on y wife's character, I was so scard of showing favoritism, that I wa actually harder on her than everyone else.

Either way, my other players assumed that I was being hard on her to get her to quit, and stood up for her.

At any rate, favoritism is obviously okay in D&D, just ask Andy.

[Username17]

That's seemingly a shockingly good analogy - up to and including the fact that he doesn't seem to even notice that he's been pushing favoritism the other way for four years.

-Username17

[Mole_2]

Even after people have repeatedly pointed it out to him in a variety of subtle and tactful ways.....

[Desdan_Mervolam]

1080217131[/unixtime]]Even after people have repeatedly pointed it out to him in a variety of subtle and tactful ways.....

Like nicknaming Tome and Blood "Skip Hates Sorcerers"?

-Des

[Username17]

Yeah, just like that.

Of course, Sorcerers are kind of in a bind from the get-go. Even before we get into the minutiae of things like "has crappy skill list" and "charisma frankly is the worst stat", and even "Sorcerers get less for taking levels in the Core Class than any other class, even fighters - and should therefore PrC even harder than anyone, but are flat harder to qualify for PrCs with than Wizards", or any of that, Sorcerer spell-casting is flat inferior to Wizard spellcasting.

At 6th level, a Sorcerer has 4 3rd level spell slots and knows one 3rd level spell. A 6th level Wizard has 4 3rd level spell slots and has at least four known 3rd level spells for free. Which means that on any given day the Wizard can cast spells just like the Sorcerer - but the next day can choose to cast spells like a different Sorcerer. Or the same Sorcerer. Whatever.

Preperation spellcasting, as written, is just like Spontaneous Casting except that it is in all ways superior. Now, if Spontaneous casters knew as many spells as preperation casters, they would obviously have the advantage, but they don't.

People keep saying "but sometimes you prepare spells as a wizard that turn out to be useless!" as if that somehow made Sorcerers good by comparison. It doesn't. For every time the Wizard prepares a fireball when all of the enemies in this adventure are Salamanders, there's a time when the Sorcerer only has one 3rd level spell to his name and it is Fireball. Being a Sorcerer is just like being a wizard where you have to prepare your spells at the start of the character level instead of the day.

As a wizard, you can have entire spell slots be useless all day - as a Sorcerer you can have entire spell levels be useless for entire adventure arcs. The wizard can say "shucks" when he prepared a sleep during the "Against the Zombies" adventure arc, and the next day he'll be back with Silent Image instead. The Sorcerer just cries. He may no have any attack spells capable of harming the enemies at all.

And at every odd level the Wizard casts better spells - and more total high level spells. The Sorcerer has 2 4th level spells known which he can cast a total of 5 times at 9th level (and 7 3rd level slots). The Wizard meanwhile has 3 5th level slots, 4 4th level slots, and 5 3rd level slots. If you count all the spell slots of 3rd level and above as being equally weighted, the Sorcerer has more spells - but in the far more accurate model where only your top level or two matters at all - the Sorcerer is being outspellslung by a lot.

And this isn't even counting the fact that a Wizard can spend time and effort to improve his spell selection on top of that, which he can.

The Sorcerer's basic spellcasting model is totally inferior (although easier to understand and use) to the spellcasting model of the Wizard. In order to balance the Sorcerer, they would need to have more skill points, more class features, more non-spellcasting abilties - and right now they have less.

The Sorcerer is a glorified NPC class. Actually, they make great NPC classes, because Sorcerer character sheets are so much shorter and easier to manage than Preperation caster sheets.

-Username17

[Tae_Kwon_Dan]

That last line is maybe the truest thing of all the true things you've ever said Frank. When I was DM'ing for the first time, I found the Sorc to be my favorite Arcane enemy class, because I could whip a 10th level Sorceror out so fast without having to worry about their damn spellbook and spell selections yadda yadda.

But good for the DM does not make them a good class at all. My hackles rise whenever anybody argues with me about how rocking they are, because they throw so many Magic Missiles in a day.

[Mole_2]

1080243849[/unixtime]]The Sorcerer is a glorified NPC class. Actually, they make great NPC classes, because Sorcerer character sheets are so much shorter and easier to manage than Preperation caster sheets.

-Username17

Now I see it writen down, I realise that I do just that, without realising I was doing it. The party encounter sorcs three or four times as often as wizards.

It is reassuring to know that my subconscious is as lazy as my conscious !