Tome Red Hand of Doom.

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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik »

Midnight_v wrote:Are there any people who want to use just "regular" tome classes?
Like the things in the Pdf?
If so I'd like to be in that group.
I dont' mind being in with GoA's Barbarian that'd be cool but some of this is just... I don't want to have to start optimizing to be equal to the party. . . *sigh*
As far as I can tell... Everyone else is under the highly mistaken impression that everything ever made by the community is of equal optimization to actual Tome material.

I have no idea why. Honestly Tome Fighter and Barbarian are the two most powerful Tome classes. But most community material would feel bad if a Tome Barbarian could even keep up.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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God_of_Awesome
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Post by God_of_Awesome »

I was switching to Jester anyway. I could give a rat's ass about silly things like 'optimization' and 'being useful.' I just wanna look cool while I contribute nothing significant to the party.
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Post by Akula »

If you focus like a laser, a monk or a knight can be an archery powerhouse. But yeah, community classes are almost always way better than "core" tome.

EDIT: Reposting.
After seeing it I really want to use the Soulborn class. Is it okay? I didn't see any major power creep, but I might just be one of those crazy tome people.

If not, I'll just be a Monk/Samurai.
DOUBLE EDIT: Stupid broken quote tags sneaking into my post.
Last edited by Akula on Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik »

Soulborn is definately power creep, but it's not that big power creep, it's only a little better than a gestalt Monk//Barbarian.

But yeah, it's okay, and since now I'm looking at like 8+ people, I'll start dividing you guys up into teams.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Avoraciopoctules
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Post by Avoraciopoctules »

Back sporadically until 5:30 (It's 2:50 for me as I type this). I'm a public library Information Desk volunteer, and I can browse teh intarwebs when I'm not helping patrons. My Curator isn't finished yet, but I am tweaking the text file and may have the updated version up before I leave in around 2.5 hours.

Regarding power creep: I'd prefer to be in the lower-power group, if such a distinction is made. If the Curator is too powerful, I'll switch to an Assassin or True Fiend using "core" tome content and my dilettante feats if they are acceptable. True Fiend might be better, since the Assassin might end up being very trapping-focused.

I copied the 4 dilettante feats I'm interested in into the sblock below:
Pyromantic Dabbler
A Fire Mage offered to set your soul on fire. For some reason, you accepted.

Benefit: You gain Spellcraft as a Class Skill if it wasn't already, and you can use Produce Flame as an at-will SLA. The rest of the benefits depend on your ranks in Spellcraft.

4: you can also cast Burning Hands, Melt, and Resist Energy (Fire) once per hour each.

9: you can also cast Fireball, Heat Metal, and Empowered Flaming Sphere once per hour each. The previous tier of SLAs can now be used 3 times per hour.

14: you can also cast Fire Shield, Incendiary Cloud, and Wall of Fire once per hour each. The previous tier of SLAs can now be used 3 times per hour.

19: you can also cast Flame Strike, Extended Summon Monster VII (Fire Elementals only), and Quickened Scorching Ray 3 times per hour each. The previous tier of SLAs can now be used 3 times per hour.

Special: The damage/healing dice for the SLAs granted by this feat are uncapped (For example, Fireball is not capped at 10d6 Fire damage). All save DCs for the abilities granted by this feat are (DC 10 + highest mental ability modifier + 1/2 your level). Your caster level is equal to your character level.

----------------

Casual Hexxer
You can totally curdle a glass of milk with just one evil eye from 30 paces.

Benefit: You gain Spellcraft as a Class Skill if it wasn't already, and you can give someone in Medium range a -2 bullshit penalty on their d20 rolls until the beginning of your next turn as an at-will SLA that takes a swift action. The rest of the benefits depend on your ranks in Spellcraft.

4: you can also cast Corrupt Water (as the black dragon ability), Extended Bane, and Doom once per hour each.

9: you can also cast Bestow Curse, Blindness/Deafness (Long range instead of Medium, lasts 10 minutes per caster level), and Contagion once per hour each. The previous tier of SLAs can now be used 3 times per hour.

14: you can also cast Cursed Weather (as Control Weather, but it makes things like rains of frogs), Eyebite, and Blight once per hour each. The previous tier of SLAs can now be used 3 times per hour.

19: you can also cast Greater Bestow Curse, Finger of Death, and Soul Bind 3 times per hour each. The previous tier of SLAs can now be used 3 times per hour.

Special: All save DCs for the abilities granted by this feat are (DC 10 + highest mental ability modifier + 1/2 your level). All save DCs for the abilities granted by this feat are (DC 10 + highest mental ability modifier + 1/2 your level). Your caster level is equal to your character level.


-----------------

Curative acolyte
Someone has to carry the first-aid kit. Not you.

Benefit: You gain Spellcraft as a Class Skill if it wasn't already, and you can use Cure Minor Wounds as an at-will SLA that takes an attack action. The rest of the benefits depend on your ranks in Spellcraft.

4: you can also cast Cure Light Wounds, Delay Poison, and Purify Food and Drink once per hour each.

9: you can also cast Lesser Restoration, Remove Blindness/Deafness, and Remove Paralysis once per hour each. The previous tier of SLAs can now be used 3 times per hour. Cure Light Wounds upgrades to Cure Moderate Wounds

14: you can also cast Raise Dead, Restoration, and Remove Curse once per hour each. The previous tier of SLAs can now be used 3 times per hour. Cure Moderate Wounds upgrades to Cure Critical Wounds.

19: you can also cast Mass Cure Critical Wounds, Resurrection, and Greater Restoration 3 times per hour each. The previous tier of SLAs can now be used 3 times per hour. Cure Critical Wounds upgrades to Heal

Special: The damage/healing dice/mods for the SLAs granted by this feat are uncapped (For example, Cure Light Wounds is not capped at +5 to the hit points healed). All save DCs for the abilities granted by this feat are (DC 10 + highest mental ability modifier + 1/2 your level). All save DCs for the abilities granted by this feat are (DC 10 + highest mental ability modifier + 1/2 your level). Your caster level is equal to your character level.

-----------------

Magician
Nobody knows precisely how you can fit so many angelic badgers into your hat

Benefit: You gain Spellcraft as a Class Skill if it wasn't already, and you can use Prestidigitation as an at-will SLA. The rest of the benefits depend on your ranks in Spellcraft.

4: you can also cast Extended Summon Monster I, Hypnotism (1d4 hit dice for every 2 caster levels, minimum 2d4), and Ventriloquism once per hour each. You may treat a single piece of clothing as a Glove of Storing as long as it is on your immediate person (if taken away for more than a round, the item concealed inside emerges).

9: you can also cast Animate Rope, Suggestion, and Silent Image once per hour each. The previous tier of SLAs can now be used 3 times per hour. You may now treat 2 pieces of clothing as Gloves of Storing as long as they are on your immediate person (if taken away for more than 1 round per level, the item concealed inside emerges).

14: you can also cast Mass Suggestion, Telekinesis, and Programmed Image once per hour each. The previous tier of SLAs can now be used 3 times per hour. You may now treat 3 pieces of clothing as Gloves of Storing as long as they are on your immediate person (if taken away for more than 1 minute per level, the item concealed inside emerges. You can command it to emerge early as long as the item is in Short range).

19: you can also cast Greater Shadow Conjuration, Mislead, and Veil 3 times per hour each. The previous tier of SLAs can now be used 3 times per hour. You may now treat 4 pieces of clothing as Gloves of Storing as long as they are on your immediate person (if taken away for more than 1 hour per level, the item concealed inside emerges. You can command it to emerge early as long as the item is in Long range).

Special: All save DCs for the abilities granted by this feat are (DC 10 + highest mental ability modifier + 1/2 your level). All save DCs for the abilities granted by this feat are (DC 10 + highest mental ability modifier + 1/2 your level). Your caster level is equal to your character level.
EDIT: didn't finish the Curator in time. Ideally, I'll have it and a lower-power backup PC ready next time I get Internet access.
Last edited by Avoraciopoctules on Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik »

Okay:

Player wise we have:

Kore the Tome Barb
Tammi the Conduit
Aethros the Curator
Victor the Hicks Dread Necro
Thunder Ryu the Swashbuckler/Ninja
Jibberish the Drow Jester
An as yet unnamed Snowcaster
An as yet unnamed Soulburn
An as yet unnamed and unclassesd Midnight.

So the "lower power" "mostly actual Tome stuff" group is looking like:

Kore the Barb
Tammi the Conduit
Aethros the Curator
Jibberish the Jester
and maybe what Midnight wants to play.

The "High Power" or "Community" group will be:
Thunder Ryu the Ninja
Victor the Dread Necro
The Snowcaster
and the Soulburn.

Any questions? Complaints?
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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God_of_Awesome
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Post by God_of_Awesome »

So Izz't isn't a good name? Would if we went with her stage name? Isis alot better?
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik »

God_of_Awesome wrote:So Izz't isn't a good name? Would if we went with her stage name? Isis alot better?
Look at the full name:

You have four vowels, eleven consonants and 2 apostrophes. You are a Polish Drow. I don't care about you name. But I'm not about to type it.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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God_of_Awesome
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Post by God_of_Awesome »

I was gonna complain but now I'm too busy giggling at 'Polish Drow.'
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Post by Hicks »

Kaelik wrote:I'm a fan of: Player proposes only slightly crazy Shit. DM says yes. Move on with life.
In the group I game with I am the primary DM, and I just hand out crazier shit before they can ask; I really don't care when power ceilings are exceeded, but I do have two scoops of whupass reserved when power minimums aren't reached.

As to the groups: Coo' with me.
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Quantumboost
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Post by Quantumboost »

Kaelik wrote:Player wise we have:

[...]
Victor the Hicks Dread Necro
Zuh? I thought that I'm creating a new character i.e. not Victor due to:
Kaelik wrote:You are also a minion class. I hate you. Like, a lot. I want to murder your face.

If you have any classes that don't meet those criteria that you might also want to play as much, I'm going to ask you to please please please please please please please play them.
At this stage I'm thinking a Monk/Fighter working toward Maxus' Dragoon or just a similar concept. Probably not going to bother with the PrC, actually.

Edit: Okay, here's what I have so far:

Flint Azzith
"The bigger they are, the more killing they need."

Lawful Evil Human Fighter 2/Monk 3 (Experimental Stock: +1 natural armor, -2 initiative)

Size/Type: Medium Humanoid (Baatezu, Extraplanar, Human)
HD: 2d10+3d8+10 (39 hp)
Attack: Halberd +11 melee (1d10+6)
Full Attack: Halberd +11 melee (1d10+6) and slam +4 melee (1d8+2 bludgeoning)
AC: 22 (+3 Wis, +8 armor (+5 vs touch/incorporeal touch), +1 natural), touch 18, flat-footed 19
Special: weapons training, combat focus, armored in life +5, fighting styles, rain of flowers, abundant leap, evasion, immunity to fire and poison, resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and electricity 8, see in darkness, telepathy
Abilities: Str 16 (18), Dex 8, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 10
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +12, Will +9
Skills: Climb +8, Jump +19 (+31 with insight bonus to speed), Knowledge (the planes) +9, Move Silently +6, Ride +4, Sense Motive +11, Survival +8 (+10 on other planes), Tumble +3
Feats: Product of Infernal Dalliance (Baatezu), Blood War Squaddie, Lightning Reflexes, Giant Slayer(B)
Languages: Common, Infernal
Alignment: Lawful Evil

Proficiencies: Pretty much whatever, given a couple days
Equipment: Magic Halberd, Belt of Strength, Magic Bronze Dragonscale Shirt, Dragoon Boots (Jump bonus + Feather Fall)

Fighting Styles: Angry Gargoyle Movement - 30' insight to speed, +4 to AC
Hungry Dragon Touch - piercing damage and 2 points Con damage, applies to weapon

Deep in the Nine Hells, there are places where mad Baatezu researchers experiment upon the fiend-tainted offspring of the mortal races, seeking to form enhanced fodder for the endless Blood War. Flint was one of the more successful subjects, what with still being alive and sapient afterwards, and was trained to fight and die against the Tanar'ri siege beasts known as Goristro. Like many others, his platoon were wiped out in one of the many futile battles in the Gray Waste, but through sheer luck he managed to not only survive, but find a portal to the Prime Material. He'd managed to escape from the Blood War, at least for a time, and now could make his own way in the world.

The Baatezu experimentation left his flesh partially hardened into a carapace, tougher but slower to react, and his extreme assault training allowed him to excel at fighting things bigger than he was - so mercenary work and fighting huge monsters was pretty much the obvious thing to do. So far, his adventures have been performed solo, but sometimes you can't get things done on your own...

Flint's approach to life is much like his approach to fighting things: jump at it headlong, hold on for dear life, and stab repeatedly.
Last edited by Quantumboost on Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:50 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik »

Quantumboost wrote:
Kaelik wrote:Player wise we have:

[...]
Victor the Hicks Dread Necro
Zuh? I thought that I'm creating a new character i.e. not Victor due to:
Kaelik wrote:You are also a minion class. I hate you. Like, a lot. I want to murder your face.

If you have any classes that don't meet those criteria that you might also want to play as much, I'm going to ask you to please please please please please please please play them.
At this stage I'm thinking a Monk/Fighter working toward Maxus' Dragoon or just a similar concept.
Right... I have no idea why I forgot that you agreed to that. But yes... That's certainly fine by me. Dragoon is okayed if you want.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
Quantumboost
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Post by Quantumboost »

Sweet. Time for some Weeaboo Jumpan Akchun.
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God_of_Awesome
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Post by God_of_Awesome »

Damn it, I forgot where the Jester class was being described.
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Post by Mask_De_H »

Well, I don't know my high power stuff well but I'll stick with Koumei's class and the Community side. If need be however, I'll switch to a Fire Mage or Conduit for team Balance.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik »

So, in case anyone is wondering how XP will work: this is the plan:

1) I have calculated when a party of four ECL 5 characters would level in Red Hand of Doom if they XP farmed every single thing in the game to be XP farmed.

2) You will all level at those points.

3) I will of course be Tomefying most of your opponents.

4) The group with five people and the "OP" group of four will mostly be facing the same encounters.

So yeah. Let's get those character sheet finished.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Post by Koumei »

Note: I'm unlikely to even read the threads, but I'd like it if people mentioned in-play concerns with any of the things I created. Because I don't think in terms of "It has to be better than Tome Fighter", I think in terms of "It has to be awesome. List some ability names then try to make them do cool shit that fits the names".

So there seriously is no balance consideration in my approach, just the vague gut feelings. This would be really handy for helping to ease them in line with regular Tomes.
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Post by Username17 »

God_of_Awesome wrote:Damn it, I forgot where the Jester class was being described.
Dungeonomicon.

-Username17
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God_of_Awesome
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Post by God_of_Awesome »

Sweet, thanks.
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Post by God_of_Awesome »

Now Isis is more or less complete except for her items.

I changed the Cloak of Shurikens to Cloak of Daggers (That are really darts but daggers sounds cooler) since Shuriken really are weak sauce. I looked it up.

Then a regular Dagger (Okay, punching Dagger, which had a better crit) enchanted to always crit on sneak attacks. Literally enchanted to seek out the spine and I'd understand if you said 'HELL NO' to that one.

Then I added a fifth slot with 'Regular rapier and scimitar.' I gave them one slot because I'm not even sure they deserve that.
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Post by endersdouble »

Ok, Tammi's specced out. Removed the shield he wasn't proficient in (doh!) and added Lightning Reflexes (ew, but I'm underleveled for the only fiend feats worth taking. Are there any other good caster feats? I have trouble finding ones.)

The only weakness atm is that I have essentially no at-will stuff; I have 18/day SLAs, but after that, I'm pretty useless in combat. Plus, three of those SLAs are death knell. I mean, I can carry a crossbow and take potshots, but that's not exactly a lot of damage.
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik »

endersdouble wrote:Ok, Tammi's specced out. Removed the shield he wasn't proficient in (doh!) and added Lightning Reflexes (ew, but I'm underleveled for the only fiend feats worth taking. Are there any other good caster feats? I have trouble finding ones.)

The only weakness atm is that I have essentially no at-will stuff; I have 18/day SLAs, but after that, I'm pretty useless in combat. Plus, three of those SLAs are death knell. I mean, I can carry a crossbow and take potshots, but that's not exactly a lot of damage.
Yeah, I always felt that Conduit was a bit short in the early levels. Level 1: Once a day level 1 SLA. Worse than any other character.

But I usually go straight for expert, so it doesn't come up.

All those Conduit like classes Warlock/Sinister's stuff/ect. That all have basic at wills. Warlock pays for it with slower progression, but meh.

I just like at will too much.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Post by Midnight_v »

Kaelik...

What do you think about me playing the samurai with the suggested changes mentioned in the "Chopping Block" thread?
I'd like to play samurai 5 with those 2 changes for further testing.

If not what I intent to play is Samurai 4 Monk1, However... I'm also strongly considering playing a Marshall as the party may need some support guy. Depends what the crew thinks though.
Don't hate the world you see, create the world you want....
Dear Midnight, you have actually made me sad. I took a day off of posting yesterday because of actual sadness you made me feel in my heart for you.
...If only you'd have stopped forever...
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Kaelik
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Post by Kaelik »

I will be ever so generous and give you the following: (Keep in mind, Tome Samurai 5 is still the second strongest character in your party).

1) Ancestral Weapon is unbreakables. Sweet.

2) You get a Combat Style. But it lasts two rounds per activation, and automatically effects your Ancestral Weapon/Weapons. Pick two of the lowest level Monk abilities. At level 10, you get two of the higher ones.

3) Ancestral Weapons can be like, two picks connected by a chain, or other bullshit to let you TWF or whatever else you want. Do not count as magical items for Book of Gears limits. And automatically use Book of Gears scaling, including rounding up.

4) Commune follows the Wildshape progression:

1/day level 5
2/day level 6
3/day level 7
level 8 = New ability
4/day level 10
Level 11 = New ability
Level 12 = New ability

ect, even though it won't come up.

But you don't get any new abilities because there is seriously no divination spell in the game as good as Commune.

Learn2Divine.
DSMatticus wrote:Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
The U.S. isn't a democracy and if you think it is, you are a rube.

That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Midnight_v
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Post by Midnight_v »

Learn2Divine.
Fair enough.
I've just gotten hated on by dm's for divining. They've historically just not told me relavant things.
Still though. I appreciate your consideration. I was thinking people weren't condidering what I was saying at all.
Don't hate the world you see, create the world you want....
Dear Midnight, you have actually made me sad. I took a day off of posting yesterday because of actual sadness you made me feel in my heart for you.
...If only you'd have stopped forever...
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